10 June 2009
DAFF09/122T

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Tony Burke
5AA 1395AM Adelaide, Leon Byner

E&OE

SUBJECT: Food labelling

LEON BYNER: There’s an enormous debate going on now because I maintain, as do many others, that our food labelling laws need to be fixed. Because we need to be very clear with the consumer what it is, where it’s from, what’s in it.

Let’s talk to the Federal Agriculture Minister, Tony Burke. Tony, thanks for joining us today. Do you agree?

TONY BURKE: With what you just said? Absolutely. And as I’ve said on your program before, the system that we’ve got on food labelling in Australia is unbelievably bureaucratic. We’re in the process of trying to fix it up. But I’ve got to say, you’re dealing with ten different governments. Even New Zealand’s a part of our laws on this. And in every government you’re dealing with something like two or three different ministers. And to try to get the thing to shift has been a frustration absolutely. And I’m glad you’ve been keeping the pressure up.

LEON BYNER: Tony, do you mean we have to ask New Zealand if we can do it?

TONY BURKE: In terms of our food laws, it’s all done on this Ministerial Council that New Zealand’s part of, we’re part of, every single state and territory government is part of. And then it’s not only one minister at each of those; it’s usually the health minister and the agriculture minister, and sometimes the consumer affairs one as well. It is a bureaucratic nightmare.

LEON BYNER: Who dreamt this up? Please tell me. Where did this all start?

TONY BURKE: There’s an organisation called FSANZ [Food Standards Australia New Zealand] that does all the food regulations. There’s some good people who work there, but in terms of the actual structure of the organisation, it’s a bureaucratic nightmare.

LEON BYNER: Mate, I’ve got to say, as Minister, if you can unravel this, you will be so electable. Seriously, I think you know the passion, not only that I have, but most Australians, to be able to at least make the choice of buying local. I think you know that, don’t you?

TONY BURKE: I mean what we’re asking for, ultimately, where we want to get to, is such a simple concept, which is: when you go to the shops you know exactly what you’re buying.

LEON BYNER: I’m just interested to know, you talk about this bureaucratic mess, and I accept what you’re saying. And I’ve got no reason to think you’re telling us anything other than what it is. But let me ask you what these people say to you when you say, “I am the Agriculture Minister. My country wants to know what it is, where it’s from, what’s in it.” Do they kind of look at you as if you spoke in Swahili when you say that?

TONY BURKE: Oh, you’ll be told, “Look, we’ll need to do a formal review. And we’ll need to come back.” And …

LEON BYNER: Who says this, a minister or a bureaucrat?

TONY BURKE: Exactly where the information comes from, you don’t fully know at one level, because sometimes it may be ministers just repeating what the bureaucracy told them. But at the end of it all, what we want is something that doesn’t happen inside a ministerial council. We want something that happens at the checkout. And I think we can get there. But the frustration of how slowly this has been moving in the last eighteen months – I mean this has been moving slowly for a lot longer than I’ve had the job. I’m determined to break this one.

LEON BYNER: Well I hope you are. Because, see, the people listening today believe they voted for someone in Australia. We didn’t get to vote Helen Clark in or out in New Zealand. I mean it’s a nice country, I’ve visited there a couple of times. But what they want to do is their bloody business, not ours. They have different policies to ours. Good luck to them.

TONY BURKE: And for a lot of food, like your dairy products, your ham – when it comes in packaged, the labelling is there and it’s clear. There’s some products like garlic; there’s some Australian garlic but not very much these days. Of the fresh produce you buy, only three per cent is imported. A lot of the imported food that appeared in those figures in the Adelaide Advertiser yesterday are things like our confectionery or frozen foods, products where Australian farmers say, “Well why would we sell our products as canned or frozen? We can get a better price for it fresh.” And you can understand why farmers make that decision.

LEON BYNER: Absolutely.

TONY BURKE: But here’s an example of one that I find really frustrating. You can go to some of the small country towns around Australia that are coastal, that have a vital fishing industry. You go to the local fish and chip shop and you buy a plate of fish and chips. And the fish you’ll get will be imported. And there will be no labelling telling you that because they don’t have to label it when it’s cooked.

LEON BYNER: Tony, do we have to ask New Zealand before we change this? I mean, I’ve got to put this to you. There is a sovereignty issue here at the heart of this. And that is, if companies want to sell and do stuff around the world, good luck to them. But I didn’t vote for them. I voted for a government so that what I know is that when I go and buy something I’m not going to get poisoned, that I know what’s in it, what isn’t in it, and where it’s from. These are basic things. I mean, for God’s sake. Is it likely in this election cycle you can fix this?

TONY BURKE: I’m pretty determined that at the very least when we next speak on this program I’ll be able to give you some significant progress on something that hasn’t moved for years, actually moving forward. You know, I don’t want to guarantee that in the next few months I’ll be able to lock it down completely. But I am determined, Leon, that when we next speak, there will be some progress that I can report on.

LEON BYNER: Now, I warn you about accepting stuff from FSANZ for this reason: remember there was a melamine scare some time ago? And we had a representative from FSANZ come on this program and admit that there might be traces of this stuff in food but they shouldn’t worry about its safety. I was contacted by a number of paediatricians who said, quote, “cannot believe any person with a brain would ever say such a thing.” To even suggest that you should eat something like that is a nonsense because to a child or people chemically sensitive these things are poison and minute doses, depending on the person, can make all the difference between a symptom and no symptoms.” So on that basis alone, that took the credibility of that organisation into the dustbin. And that’s where they sit with me. So I wouldn’t regard any of their expertise all that highly, and that’s the reason why.

TONY BURKE: No, I can see why you reached those conclusions, Leon. Where I want to get to is the bit that I’m responsible for. Nicola Roxon’s got the health impacts of food. But in terms of people knowing whether what they’re buying comes from an Australian farm or not, I’m personally frustrated that I haven’t been able to deliver on already. But I do want you to know the ball has not been dropped. And next time we talk I’m quite determined that there’s some progress I can report back to you and your listeners.

LEON BYNER: Tony, good on you. I commend what you’re saying because you’ve given us some straight answers. But I just want to put something by you. And I won’t hold you to the date or the year. When did this happen? Because it would be very concerning for the average listener to know that we allowed the regulation of such fundamental stuff as what we eat, to go out of our country’s control into a consortia whose interests are not our sovereign interests.

TONY BURKE: It’s been some years, but well before I came in. I don’t know the answer to your question Leon. I can find out the date.

I’ve got to say, even in fairness to New Zealand on this one, the biggest problem isn’t who’s involved. The biggest problem is the number of different forces that are involved, and therefore the difficulty in getting any decisions made.

LEON BYNER: Yeah, well you see, you know as well as I do Tony, that an importer can make more money from pretending to be an Australian product. So therefore, let’s be honest brokers and at least tell the consumer what it is, where it’s from, what’s in it. I don’t think that’s anti-trade, because most of our trading partners who’ve signed the same agreements as us do this.

TONY BURKE: It’s not anti-trade at all. What we’re talking about is to go beyond where its made. You can buy a packaged cake that says “Made in Australia”, where the ingredients are from overseas but it was made here. And it gets a “Made in Australia” label, like a fruitcake where the fruit’s imported.

LEON BYNER: You see I don’t eat the label. I eat the fruit. I don’t know about you.

TONY BURKE: That’s right. And so this is why we want to get the “Grown in Australia” label up. The cake might be made here, but people want to know where the food itself was grown.

LEON BYNER: Yeah. Well Tony, good on you that you’re resolute. And please keep me well informed on this. Because I can assure you, this state is hanging on getting something happening so at least we can make the informed choice at point of sale whether we want to buy or whether we don’t.

TONY BURKE: It’s an important campaign that you’re behind on this. It’s something that goes right to the heart of whether people know or don’t know what they’re putting in their mouths.

LEON BYNER: Tony, thank you very much indeed. That’s the Federal Agriculture Minister, Tony Burke.

[ENDS]